Lo, recently I've been keeping constant pressure on Zerg with Hellions then supported with Thors, works a treat. I've found if you give the Zerg any room to breathe they'll usually swarm my *** with Muta's and have far more resources than me and it's pretty much GG from me. Was wondering what other strategies are you Terrans using on teh Zerg?
Again as I said on your TvT thread, it depends on what I scout at first, MMM will only work if they don't go banelings, which most of them will once they see your unit composition. I always assume the worst against zerg, so I wall in just in case of rushes (roach increased range has made this difficult too), Turrets near my mineral line if I see any indication that leads to muthas, and I try to keep pressure with tanks, which positioned in the right place can be devastating. My last game against zerg I tried ravens which worked pretty well to harass, dropping turrents everywhere and helping me to limit the creep expansion. And of course at least 2 vikings to hunt overlors, supply blocking them works great.
i get so pissed by bannling busts...like my only chance is to go quick against them...i try and hit them with banshees...
Yeah Banelings are good at keeping this Strategy at bay but if you just maintain the Pressure, Heal the Thors with SCVs and get those Ground Vehicle Upgrades (which work great since you're only really using ground vehicles) they'll usually fold. (Don't forget to expand if they have a good Defense) and have a few Marines and Missile Turrets incase they get pissed off and try some desperate Muta Rush to your Mineral Line / Supply Depots / Base). If they keep holding you back with the Baneling Busts, I just throw my defending Marines at them then move in with my Hellions and Thors to finish them off. Another good thing is because you're keeping constant pressure on them they can't really get a 2nd Expansion (since they're a Swarm Race).
Banshees aren't really going to counter a baneling bust unless the Zerg's timing is off by quite a large margin. If you see speedling/baneling coming along you're better off with some Hellions. It will completely decimate the lings, and can actually decimate any incoming banelings before they can rip open your door and decimate your bio units. Then counter/tech (don't keep pumping Hellions obviously). edit: attached a sample replay. Even with a way late baneling bust (ideally I should be scouting his ramp and have busted a lot earlier) his Banshee tech, which while a fairly safe/non-gamble tech was still pretty early, doesn't come soon enough.
Lots of Roaches = Siege Tank Marauder Ya roaches got an upgrade but marauders can still stand behind wallin and shoot roaches no problem backed up by tanks roach rush is gone. Mutas = Thors not a ton and Vikings not a ton... you can mix it up use the Vikings to harass overlords while using thors to secure expandsions and have turrets on your mineral lines. Also one or 2 seeker missiles from a seemingly harmless Raven into a bunched up group of mutas is lights out if the Zerg player misses the micro. Banelings = Marauders early on Thors in the front of engagements on late game. Hydra/Roach mid late game = Siege Tanks viking banshee... only detection Zerg have in the air is an easy to focus fire overseer Have siege tanks and marines/marauders for ground army. You could go on all day about the counter to what is this and that those are just what I use playing Terran vs. Zerg cause Im a better zerg than I am a Terran but very good at Terran vs Zerg matchups when Im playing Terran. Eliam nailed it in a round about way man and I always say the game is about reactionary play without that we might as well be flipping a coin or playing rock paper scissor to see if our "build" beats their "build". Gotta cheat and make sure your build beats theirs and if they adapt you adapt and try to trick them into overproducing 1 unit more than the other by hiding tech and units.
Got Caught of Guard Twice in a Row with this there. Too Busy Focusing on the Hellion/Thor Build which usually works a treat.
If I see zerg FE then I just do boxer's strategy of 2 rax 4-5 marines and send all my scvs to win the game. Just keep a mule to mine minerals and keep making more marines. Fun strategy.
Cloaked Banshee Rushes work Great on Bronze Players but Silver Players usually pop an Overseer out. The Hellion & Thor w/ Upgrades (and SCVs to Repair Thors) Push I find Works well against Silver Zerg Players.
Beware of Baneling Busts at your Front, can be a Game Ender. To Defend you Must have Production Buildings to Walloff. Lets say Scrap Station for example where you have a Wide Entrance. Instead of say Walling-off with 3 Supply Depots, a Barracks, and a Bunker (this Walloff is Inefficient, Weak and can get you Supply Blocked). Walloff with a Barracks, Factory, and Bunker (w/ the Bunker in the Middle) - another Tip is to Build a Reactor on the Barracks while the Factory is being Built, then do a Tech Switch. When a Walloff is Damaged, have 2 or 3 SCVs Repair the Damage Straight Away! (they will most likely lob more Banelings at it soon). Get a Tech Lab and Research Concussive Shells asap on your Barracks to be Prepared for if you Scout a Roach Warren. Get a few Marauders and Hellions out so that you can Defend Properly But Remember the Main Build is 1/2/0 for a Hellion/Thor Push + Armory Upgrades. Scan, Scan, Scan, so you can Adapt Accordingly.
When using the Hellion & Thor Build I was having problems when it didn't work, Mid-Late Game I'd get beat with Broodlords & Corruptors. Tried the Hellion & Thor Build but Tech Switched into Vikings & Battlecruisers. Also the Mechs were 1/1 Upgraded. Upgrading the Missile Turret Armor and Range helps too. It helps if you Fast Expand too, you're going to need a lot of Resources to Build.
The standard core build in TvZ is marines and tanks. Marines are by far the best counter to mutalisks, even better than thors. If mutalisks use the magic box to avoid all splash from thors, it turns out that two stimmed marines will actually do more damage to mutalisks than a single thor would. Marines also do exceptionally well against zerglings and hydralisks, and somewhat decently against roaches. However, marines do have a fatal weakness against banelings. That's why you have tanks, because they can easily take out dozens of banelings from a safe distance, as well as being exceptionally powerful against most other ground units. That's not to say you should only get marines and tanks. Marauders are useful against roach heavy builds that might otherwise overpower a pure marine-tank composition. Marauders are also great at picking off infestors and expansions. A few early reapers can scout the enemy base and poke at his defenses all game, keeping him off balance. Hellions are great for early pushes, you can really do a lot of damage if the enemy zerg is relying on just speedlings to defend a fast expansion. If you are facing a lot of mutalisks, thors are perfect for reinforcing your missile turrets. The long range of thors can grant a very wide range of protection, and it's splash damage force the mutalisks fly directly over the thor when attacking, allowing all your missile turrets to participate in the defense at the same time. I also usually get a single raven in my army, which allows me to destroy creep tumors without having to use valuable energy from my orbital commands. An alternative core build of hellions and thors sounds promising, but in practice it doesn't work. So many resources are used on tech that you can't push out early, allowing the zerg to power drones and get an economic advantage. Then you have to deal with mutalisk harass, forcing you to build turrets and/or leave some thors behind when you leave your base to attack. When you do attack, your force ends up being much smaller due to harass, and the zerg is much larger due to extra bases and workers, so you can get surrounded with more lings than even blue flame hellions can handle, or get hit with so many magic box mutalisks that the thors are overwhelmed. Mass roaches can also end up winning against thors and hellions. You could decrease the chance of that happening by waiting until you are maxed out before pushing, but that gives the zerg time to get even more bases and tech to ultralisks or brood lords, which are the two units that will wreck most terran compositions. The one unit that I hate to see most in TvZ is the ultralisk. It's very much capable of beating every terran ground unit. Your best hope is to get marauders and kite the ultralisks as best you can, which is somewhat difficult because ultralisks are not affected by concussive shells. Thors are also somewhat successful, as long as you always engage at choke points. Banshees and vikings can help indirectly by harassing, and forcing the zerg to spend gas on mutalisks instead of ultralisks. Even still, once the zerg has a large economy and ultralisk tech, usually the best course of action is to resort to multiple drops to deal damage, and weather the storm until his bases are mined out and you can make your move.
Do you guys think a combination of vikings, hellions and marauders would work? Just thought of it and it seems to counter most things zerg can throw at you. At the same time you don't have to use the more expensive units like tanks, thors, banshees etc.
But with that combo you can afford to get really many vikings, so they might be viable against mutas.
You would have to go 3 reactor starport to get enough vikings to beat mass mutalisks. If you do that, you have almost no marauders or hellions, so they can just switch into mass zergling or roach instead.
Ok, I see that there is a flaw with viking v muta. But I wonder whether vikings do really suck so badly against mutas - prolly have to give it a try.
